Speaking of Travel® With Marilyn Ball

Pico Iyer Opens Our Hearts And Eyes To Learn More About The World

• Pico Iyer

Share episode

Pico Iyer helps bring an understanding of cultural differences to all of us by interacting with people whose culture, experiences, or worldview might differ from his own. 

For over four decades, he’s written 16 books, translated into 23 languages, on subjects ranging from the Dalai Lama to globalism, from the Cuban Revolution to Islamic mysticism. For Pico, travel is a professional devotion as much as a spiritual one. 

Pico shares how he discovered wonder and beauty right in his own backyard and why a physical location is not so important as long as you live life as a good human being. He shares how he came to realize why home lies in the things you carry with you vs the ones that tie you down.

Travel is a key theme in most of Pico's works. He tries to see within a society or way of life from an outsider's perspective. Pico shares his thoughts and curiosity about the bigger world to help us rethink assumptions and to be mindful about new ideas and insights. 

Oh, and there's ping-pong too. 

A special conversation with Pico Iyer. “A person susceptible to "wanderlust" is not so much addicted to movement as committed to transformation.” Thank you Pico! 

A must listen. Only on Speaking of Travel.

Thanks for listening to Speaking of Travel! Visit speakingoftravel.net for travel tips, travel stories, and ways you can become a more savvy traveler.

Speaker 1:

Support for speaking of travel comes from Asheville Regional Airport, Western North Carolina's. Gateway to the world. Your safety when traveling to and from Asheville is and always will be our top priority. Visit fly avl.com for all your current travel information. Prestige Subaru offering a variety of new and pre-owned all-wheel drive Subarus. Built with the zero landfill promise all waste is recycled or reused. With more@prestigsubaru.com. Romantic asheville.com. Create your perfect vacation in the land of the sky with the region's most popular online travel guide. Plan your next getaway to Asheville and the North Carolina Blue Ridge Mountains by visiting romantic asheville.com. Nest Realty and realtor Janet Oppenheimer, A senior resource specialist. Janet serves the Asheville North Carolina area. Visit nest realty.com and look for your trusted mountain community advisor, Janet Oppenheimer Asheville Farms. Unlock the potential C B D has in your life with Western North Carolina's premier supplier of high quality hemp and C B D products. Visit their store location at 28 Lexington Avenue in Asheville and by visiting Asheville hemp farms nc.com and by private Italy Tours L T d sharing the authentic culture of Italy with guests for over 20 years. Visit their website private italy.com for more details about upcoming two week explorations across Bella Italian. Welcome to speaking of Travel with Marilyn Ball. Sit back and be carried away to places around the world and right here in our own backyard. No passport required.

Speaker 2:

Hi, this is Marilyn Ball. Welcome to Speaking of Travel, right here on iHeartRadio five 70 W N C. And remember, you can always listen to this episode of Speaking of Travel or any past episode with a simple click on the speaking of travel website that speaking of travel.net and on all worldwide podcast platforms. And be sure when you visit, speaking of travel.net to sign up for the travel club, you'll receive travel news, helpful tips and stories from people who help bring an understanding of cultural differences to all of us by interacting with people whose culture and experiences or even their worldview might differ from their own. Well my guest is certainly one of these people for over four decades he's written, imagine Publishing 16 books translated into 23 languages on subjects ranging from the Dai Lama to globalism from the Cuban Revolution to Islamic mysticism. For Pico ire travel is a professional devotion as much as a spiritual one. And welcome to speaking of Travel Pico and thank you so much for being with us today.

Speaker 3:

Thank you Marilyn. I'm really, really happy to be here.

Speaker 2:

Well, Pico, you're speaking to us from Japan, so we're kind of the yin and yang right now of time zones. You're waking up to your morning and I'm toning down to mine and I appreciate you so much coming on and, and speaking with us today.

Speaker 3:

Not at all. It's this radiant spring morning and the cherry blossoms are fluttering over every stream and lane and so I couldn't be happier<laugh>, I think it's probably brighter here than it is night in Asheville

Speaker 2:

<laugh>. Yes, well I'm sure that's the case, although we have had a beautiful sunset, so we get that beauty as well. You know, we are, I was, I was talking about devotion here and Pico, I understand that in, in your neck of the woods where you live in Japan, that you have something of a devotion to ping pong. Is this true?

Speaker 3:

It is. I, I've lived in this little two room apartment for more than 30 years now. I don't speak so much Japanese, I stay here on a tourist visa, but my greatest connection with my neighbors is three times a week I walk up the hill to the health club and I play furious games of ping pong with them where of course language is not such a barrier. Most of my ping pong friends are in their seventies or even eighties. They learnt at school sometimes before World War ii. And I am lucky if I can win one point off them every three months. They're very, very good at ping pong, but it's proved a wonderful way for us to get together.

Speaker 2:

Well would you consider that ping pong is maybe a spiritual event when you're playing it? Do you kind of get into a different zone? Does it make you feel relaxed?

Speaker 3:

It certainly makes me feel relaxed cuz as a writer, I'm spending the first eight hours of every day at my desk writing mostly and reading. There's a wonderful way to clear my head. But it's also, as you were saying in your introduction, a wonderful way to understand a very different culture. For example, in our ping pong club, we always play doubles. We choose our partners by lot. So every five minutes you've got a different partner and you happen to win one game, you'll probably lose the next game because you have a very different partner. And, uh, everybody keeps score of each game to make it fun and exciting. But nobody keeps score of who's winning. So at the end of the day, really everybody comes home feeling like a winner. And it's very different from when I play ping pong, uh, in California with my arch rival. We're really determined to win and I can't sleep if he wins cause I'm so upset and I can't sleep if I win because I know he is going to take revenge. But here in Japan, everything is about the larger harmony and making everybody feel like a winner. So it's a, it's a lovely different approach to life.

Speaker 2:

I love that it's a different approach to culture. It's a way of getting to know your neighbors and finding common ground because I think that's ultimately what we all wanna do, is to be able to find that common ground. Well, Pico, I wanna talk to you a little bit about, uh, you know, I have spoken with a lot of people over the last three years during the pandemic and a lot of travelers, people who were traveling all over the world, whose lifestyles was around traveling. They were digital nomads or they were living in different countries and suddenly they found themselves maybe living in their parents' basement in New Hampshire. Suddenly they were not traveling anymore. It was a standstill. And as people started talking to me, they started talking about this stillness that they were feeling, that they weren't bing, bing, bonging all over the, the world. They were instead sitting someplace where they had really no choice. And I'm talking about conductors, symphony conductors who were all over the world to, uh, people who lived in their vans, whatever they, they were suddenly still. And I wanna talk to you a little bit about that. Did you have that experience yourself having been somebody who travels all over the world to suddenly find yourself in this kind of quiet zone going into maybe an inner journey?

Speaker 3:

I did. I mean, when you spoke about staying in the parents' basement, um, soon after the pandemic broke out, uh, I had to fly back from this little apartment in Japan to be with my mother in her home in California. She was 88, she'd just been in hospital. I needed to be with her. And I think the main thing I found was the beauty of, um, my home, my backyard, which I'd never discovered before. So my wife and I, you know, we weren't flying around as usual, just as you mentioned, we, our health club was closed. We needed to take exercise. So we started taking walks every morning from my mother's house. And it was very early in the morning, the sun was just showing up over the mountains of flooding their slopes with golden light. We'd walk into that golden light and we'd turn around and we'd see the Pacific Ocean in the distance, absolutely clear and sentient, um, in the, in the fresh, uh, spring afternoon. And I would think, my gosh, this is as beautiful as anything. I would fly across the World Sea in Cape Town or Rio Janera. Here it is right up the road from my mother's house. And my parents have lived in that property 50 years. I'd never walked to the end of the road just 20 minutes away until lockdown enforced it. And, and, and in the afternoons we would drive down just 10 minutes away to a beach absolutely golden empty again. In more than 50 years I'd never been to the beach down the road. So the stillness opened my eyes to what I take for granted. And I think the pandemic had that effect on lots of us.

Speaker 2:

I think so too. I talk, I've talked to a lot of people who have had very similar situations and I had to really start looking at what I was doing myself, which was walking around my backyard in my neighborhoods and finding, I've lived in the same place for 45 years and there are neighborhoods that I've been to visit, but it became almost like a second nature home. People would wave to me, oh hi, as if I lived in that neighborhood because I, I loved walking in their neighborhood and it was just such a wonderful way to kind of lose myself. And really being able to say even now when we can travel again to go out and explore your own backyard is such a positive way to get exercise and even learn something about where you are.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it, I mean, you don't have to travel far to be transformed. And you know, I always love the fact when friends visit me in my hometown, because I show them all the tourist sites I'd usually a avoid. And suddenly, again, I'm awakened to the beauty that's right there. But it often takes a lockdown or foreign visitors to, uh, being our eyes open to what's around us.

Speaker 2:

Well, Pico, when we come back from the break, I wanna talk to you more about your travels, your writing, your, uh, your future, where we are all going, we don't know, but maybe we can, uh, dive a little bit deeper into that and, and have a, a conversation in the meantime. How can people get in touch with you, uh, via social media? Do you have a website? Is there a way that people can connect with you?

Speaker 3:

Yes, I have a website that's pico ier journeys.com. And I have a Twitter account that's just at Pico. I

Speaker 2:

Well thank you so much and, uh, you said you'd had your tea quota, but start drinking some water, get plenty of fluids to get your day going. This is Marilyn Ba you're listening to Speaking of Travel. I'm here today with Pico Ire and we'll be right back. Stay tuned.

Speaker 4:

Spring is finally sprung and with our backyard in full bloom, now is the time to get out and find adventure wherever it may lead. From the mountains to the rivers and all the turf in between. We are no less than blessed with our beautiful backyard right here in western North Carolina. There's a will, there's a way for the way we have the wheels to take you wherever you wish to wonder. Adventure is waiting and the choice is yours. Find your adventure vehicle@prestigesubaru.com. Prestige Subaru 5 85 Tunnel Road in Nashville. And welcome to Seville

Speaker 5:

One, Jordan. This is Mark Smith, president of Private Italy tours and a proud sponsor of speaking of Travel with Marilyn Ball. We are pleased to announce that we are now providing custom boutique itinerary planning for those clients who might wish to travel on their own without being part of a small group tour. Everything from Villa Rentals guide, reservations, rental cars, private cars, any other services you might imagine we can provide, please inquire@privateitaly.com or info@privateitaly.com.

Speaker 6:

Buy me to the moon. Let me play among the stars. Let me see what spring is like on a Jupiter and Mars. In other words,

Speaker 2:

Welcome back to speaking of Travel. I'm your host Marilyn Ball and I'm here today with Pico Ire talking to us from Japan. Pico. Where in Japan are you in the, as far as the country's kind of a long country geographically, where are you?

Speaker 3:

I'm in the little town of Nara, uh, so 20 miles away from the famous ancient capital of Kyoto and about four hours by train from Tokyo.

Speaker 2:

And you were talking about the cherry blossoms. Are they coming out there now?

Speaker 3:

They're very early this year, so they're actually beginning to fade now. And so as I walk down the streets around me, there's this beautiful snowfall effect of all the blossoms being, you know, buffeted by the wind and carpeting the sidewalks, it white and pink. It's really lovely. Oh, even when they beginning to die, that

Speaker 2:

Sounds very lovely. And I bet when the light is in different positions that it makes it just shine those pink, pink flowers.

Speaker 3:

Yes. And then there's some of, some of the great temples open their gates after nightfall during the season. So you see the cherry blossoms illuminated in the dark against Stan of bamboo. And that's very haunting and a treat you can only enjoy maybe 10 days of every year.

Speaker 2:

I love those little special days when you know that this is an opportunity and you are in the moment and you pay attention to that. And you, I I was talking to somebody recently about that and how there would be something in my mind that would say, hold on to this, remember this because it will always be in that memory bank of of yours. And you do that when you write. What, tell me what goes on in your mind, pico when you're, when you're writing about a different culture, maybe one that nobody is really familiar with.

Speaker 3:

Well, I, when I travel I always have my little notebook and I take down everything then and there while I can feel and smell and hear it. It's too difficult and expensive to go back to a place. So I need to catch it at the time. And then when I come back to my little desk here, I ask myself three questions, what most moved me on that trip? What most surprised me? And how might I live a little differently in the light of what I experienced? And as you say, um, many people were sketch or more and more people take photographs, but for me, writing is a wonderful way of extending the trip and really getting something tangible at the end of it. So it's not just a bombardment of experiences, but the writing process forces me to think what was really essential about what I witnessed and how I can begin to make sense of it.

Speaker 2:

And then you just come back and you let that percolate and then you start writing a book. Is that how that unfolds for you?

Speaker 3:

Yes, ideally it percolate as long as two months. You know, I often write pieces immediately after I return, but the deepest pieces are after I've, the experiences have been began to seep deep into my memory and my heart and my imagination. And then I can engage in a much deeper way with the place I've just left.

Speaker 2:

So why I'm, I'm just curious, Pico, you live in Japan, you talked about California is where your parents are. So when you think of home, do you think of your home that you grew up in? Do you think of it as where you live now or is that something even more out there that you feel you are home wherever you are? How does that work for you? It's different for a lot of different writers.

Speaker 3:

It's, yes, it's different for all of us. And I think home is something internal. It's not where I live. It's what lives inside me, which is my mother, my wife, my favorite song, the book that I always have and my carry on. And I'd always believe that. But it really, as it were, came home to me once. Cuz I was in our family house in California and I looked out the window and we were encircled by 70 foot flames, the worst forest fire in California in history. Wiped out our entire house and every last thing we earned in the world. And said the next morning when I woke up, the only thing I had was the toothbrush that I'd bought from a 24 hour supermarket. And so if anybody asked me then what you just asked me, where is your home? I had no physical construction to point to, but I still felt very rooted in the monastery I keep returning to and the people I cared about who are still alive. And it really made me think that, um, home is part of one's soul more than the soil. I feel very at home here in Japan, but as I say, I live here on a tourist visa. I know I'll never be Japanese. Uh, and I like the fact that home is a more and more complex thing for, as you said, more and more of us, that it's a, it's like a collage and we're taking pieces of many different places and creating a home in this world. You mentioned digital nomads where people are, are moving as never before. And that's a great opportunity, I think to, to create a, a many, uh, roomed home inside our arts.

Speaker 2:

I love that idea. I think that's so true too. And what I was talking about, having a, a memory bank and being able to, uh, deposit into that and take out of that and use that almost as a currency as you move around, I could see that definitely being, especially somebody who travels so much and is in different places and different cultures. So pico, how do you choose your destinations? Like how do you decide where you wanna go? Uh, that's always been something that I've wondered about people who travel so much.

Speaker 3:

I think I'm looking for places as different as possible from the world I know. And in fact, as you said, I spend, I'm lucky to spend time in California and Japan, you very comfortable, easy places, I think in the larger scheme of things. And so sometimes I choose uncomfortable, uneasy places to visit because they're going to throw me into a different corner of myself that I never usually encounter. And of course, like you, I have lots of friends who spend 50 weeks of the year working really hard. They get two weeks of holiday and then of course they want to crash out on a beach or relax, we'll go somewhere very calm. But since I'm in a different position, um, I want something radically different for me. So just as the pandemic was beginning, I went, uh, Antarctica and it was like another planet of course, just as a pandemic was easing. Last year I went to Zanzibar, which is entirely different too. And I think my main criterion is I, I'm not looking for a pleasant place. I'm looking for an interesting place. So it'll shake me up and overturn my assumptions and engage me. So if I have to choose between let's say Jerusalem and Maui, my friends who work hard will probably choose Maui and I will choose Jerusalem because it's, it confronts me with so many startling things that when I get back home, it's turning inside me for months thereafter.

Speaker 2:

I bet. And then to be able to set yourself right in that culture and, and then learn how to get around and how to be and be able to compare and contrast it, oh, it was kind of like this when I was in this place. Now it's like this when I'm in that place. Is there any particular place that has just like wowed even you pico, that you were just like, wow, this place, fill in the blank.

Speaker 3:

Three places come to my mind, the most transporting otherworldly place I've ever been was Tibet. I remember standing on a terrace outside the Patala palace in Lassa. And I felt not just on the rooftop of the world, but on the rooftop of my consciousness, which might have had to do with jet lag and the altitude shocking blue skies. But 38 years later, I still remember every moment of that Cuba used to be the place that fascinated me because it was the happiest place, the saddest, the most cynical, the most passionate, the most complicated place. So every time I returned from Cuba, I knew less than I knew before. And it was like a song that plays in your head you can't stop hearing. And the most, the richest, most surprising and most sophisticated place I've ever been was Iran. And I thought I knew a lot about Iran cuz I'd been studying it for 30 years before I got there. I'd even published a 350 page novel partly set there though I'd never been. And yet within four hours I saw I didn't know a thing. And every hour that followed, um, turn me on my head. And I'll never forget my 16 days in Iran.

Speaker 2:

Pika, we have so much to unpack here as they say, what a wonderful life and journey and there's so much we can learn and, and take away from, from your journey. Uh, and I want to hear more. So when we come back from the break, I'd like to talk to you about paradise. You've talked a lot about that and I think we all in our own dreams are looking for that. And again, remind us how we can connect with, with you and, and learn more about who you are and what you do.

Speaker 3:

Uh, pico i journeys.com is where you'll find my website and a hundred of my old articles and Penguin Random house, my publishers. And you can find my many books there.

Speaker 2:

All right, well we'll be back with pico io. This is Marilyn Baugh you're listening to. Speaking of travel, stay tuned.

Speaker 7:

Traveling to new places is good for everybody, but sometimes travel can be challenging. The good news is there are products available that can put your traveling concerns at ease, unlock the potential CBD has in your life with Western North Carolina's premier supplier of high quality hemp and CBD products. Visit our store at 28 North Lexington Avenue in Asheville and by visiting Asheville Hemp Farms nc.com.

Speaker 8:

This is Tina Kinzie with Asheville Regional Airport. And I have a travel tip for you today. When does your trip begin? When you leave home or when you arrive at your destination, it can be a great transitional time to mentally determine that your trip starts once you enter the airport, plan a little extra time so you're not rushed and treat your time at the airport as the start to a great adventure. Many airports, small to large, offer interesting amenities. Visit your airport's website before you arrive so you have an idea of things to do or see. Some fun amenities that are popping up at airports across the globe include internationally acclaimed restaurants, art galleries, yoga studios, workout facilities, full spas, movie theaters, shopping malls. And don't forget airline v i p lounges. You can often purchase a day pass right here at Asheville Regional Airport. We offer a curated art gallery featuring artists from Western North Carolina, popup music concerts by local musicians and a great restaurant. And hey, if nothing else, plan a little extra time to pop into the bar and enjoy a local beer before your flight. Thanks for listening to this tip from Asheville Regional Airport. When you fly home your home,

Speaker 6:

Play me to the moon. Let me play among the stars. Let me see what spring is like on a Jupiter and Mars. In other words,

Speaker 2:

Ho welcome back to Speaking of Travel. I'm your host Marilyn Ball and I'm here with Pico Ire talking to us from Japan. Pico, you've done a number of TEDx talks. I I'm just gonna throw that out. What was it like for you when you did your very first TEDx talk? I'm curious because people are always wanting to do one and they're like, oh, I'm afraid, I'm afraid to do one. What was it really like for you when you first did one?

Speaker 3:

Yes, and so actually these were not TEDx talks. These were actually the Ted the main conference talks. Uh, and they do make it intimidating. It's a funny thing cuz they invite people who've usually given a lot of speeches before and yet in the green room everybody is terrified. But of course it's the most reassuring audience around. And often I've noticed, because I've been to eight TED conferences, I'll be at the next one in Vancouver next week, um, that the more somebody stumbles, the more the crowd is with you. So really you, you can't go go wrong. Uh, but I'm very lucky to fall into the hands of Ted because they reached so many people around the globe.

Speaker 2:

They really do. And what we are talking about earlier about educating people and being able to break down cultural barriers, that's such an important part. I've been doing, speaking of travel now for 10 years, this is my 10th year every week. So I've talked to a lot of people, as you can imagine, and everybody says the same thing. People are people wherever you go, they're all, like you were saying with your ping pong buddies, that's your common ground. And I'm sure you've seen that everywhere that you've gone that people are people, right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And it's only in my head that I make divisions or differences. And I find it's one of the reasons I travel that when I'm sitting at home, I think about Syria or North Korea or Cuba and I just think about everything that's different in those cultures from ours. And as soon as I get off the plane and you've experienced it cuz you've been to Cuba, soon as I get off the plane in Damascus or or Havana or Tehran, instantly I'm reminded of the human connections that unite us. The, I get into the taxi and the taxi drivers worried about his kids and he's complaining about the economy and it's not in love with his government. He sounds just like a taxi driver in New York City. And it's only when I'm far away from a place that I imagine they're different as soon as I meet them on a human level, I can't believe in difference. So much cultural and political differences remain, but human differences much less so.

Speaker 2:

Well I wanna talk about that because there are all of these differences, but then there's this, like we were, I was saying before the break, there's this conception or perception that people have about paradise. That somewhere we're gonna go and it's gonna be the Garden of Eden or it's gonna be everything. All the pieces are gonna be just falling right into place. What do you think about that? I wanna I wanna pick your brain on that a little bit. Pico.

Speaker 3:

Well I just completed a book about that very subject, uh, the half known life in such a paradise. And during the pandemic and lockdown, like many of us, I was thinking life is always difficult. Death is pretty close. It was certainly close during the coronavirus time. How can I find light and possibility in the midst of a difficult life? And so I thought back on many of my travels and I've been lucky enough to be, to visit many of the places we think of as Paradise, barley or Tahiti or the Ss. And they're lovely when you're on holiday for two weeks, they're paradise for me, but probably not for the person living there. They're real life for the people working so hard to make us comfortable. And I also remembered how sometimes I'll go to the Himalayas for example, it really can feel like shangrila in one of those well preserved pristine places. And I say to them, you're living in Shangrila. And I'll say, oh no, we know the real place. That's paradise. It's that city called New York where full of modernity and coolness and all the things that we don't have so much here in in the mountains of, of Asia. And so, you know, paradise is very much in, in one's head. And I think one thing I always remember is here in Japan, if I walk to a temple down the road, as I enter on the ground inscribed in Japanese, other words, look beneath your feet, then it goes back to what we were saying about taking walks during the pandemic in our backyard. Paradise is not some, never, never place in the future. It's not a golden age in the past. I think we have to find it right where we are at any moment. And I think we can, if our eyes are mind are open to that.

Speaker 2:

Well, how do you think we can get our eyes in mind open to that pico? I I I often wonder about that. It sounds easier said than done. Like, oh yeah, you should just go do this. Well how do we do it? Give me a, give me a little tip on that<laugh>.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's such a good question, Marilyn. So for example, during the pandemic, all of us were living in a state of anxiety and it was a very hard time for everybody on the planet. And when I woke up, I thought every day I can either think about all the things that I'm missing, which will make me really frustrated,<laugh> or I can think about all the things I still have. My mother's still alive, my wife and I are healthy, we've got this beautiful walk to look forwards to and that makes me feel grateful. So the pandemic reminded me that, um, we have almost no control over outer circumstances, but we maybe have more control over our inner circumstances than we can imagine. Not entire control. I mean, if you're in pain, you can't begin to think, think about paradise if you're in the hospital. Paradise is not even a concept you want to think about. But many of us in our daily life have a chance to choose whether we're going to concentrate on the many things to rejoice in or the many things that are going to ma make us angry. We can turn ourselves towards paradise even if you can't always find it.

Speaker 2:

Well that makes perfect sense. And I'm sure that, uh, there are practices you were talking about, uh, going someplace. When you go back to California, do you go, where do you go? You go to some kind of a, a retreat or something?

Speaker 3:

I do, I've gone more than a hundred times to a Benedictine monastery above Big Sur, California, which already as you know, is one of the most radiant places on the planet. And it's interesting cause I'm not a Christian, so I'm not going there for the specific religious instruction, but just the silence and the beauty and the freedom from distraction. No telephones, no tv, no internet there. Remind me of the beauty that's surrounding me every day. Another advantage I've had is that the 48 years now I've been talking and regularly traveling with, uh, the Dalai Lama and he's probably had the most difficult life of anybody I've known. And yet of course what he's most famous for is his constant smile and his infectious laugh and his robust confidence. And it's just a reminder that, um, that wherever you find yourself, there's a possibility to to learn to open your eyes. Whenever I'm traveling with him, when I go into his hotel room at eight 30 in the morning, I notice as a telescope pointing out the window because he knows wherever he travels, acro around the world, each place offers a different perspective on the heavens. Each one is going to allow him to see the stars as he's never seen them before. So he is the perfect traveler in that way. Reminding himself every day can be a lesson and adventure if you so choose to make it. So even though there, he's a very burdened person politically, religiously in charge of 6 million people, but even he can find beauty wherever he so chooses.

Speaker 2:

Okay, well I just need to, I just need to ask you, so you, you've been traveling with the Dalai Lama for how long?

Speaker 3:

Since, well, I first went to visit him at his home when I was a teenager and since then I've traveled with him in the United States, Europe, Japan. Um, so 48 years that I've known him and been talking with him regularly.

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm sure there must be an age difference. So if you were 12, what was he like in his thirties or something?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly. He's 22 years older than I am. And one thing that strikes me, so when he comes to Japan, my wife and I are by his side for every minute of his working day, eight hours every day, day after day. And at the end of just watching him go through his day, I'm exhausted. Even though I'm 22 years younger, he never does for his, the duration of his HR days. He never takes a break. And you know, his host will often say holiness, do you just want to be quiet in a room for 10 minutes? You wanna have lunch? No, we must be together. And he knows, speaks to what you were saying about human connection, he knows his obligation is to be with people as much as possible and share what he can. And so he never, never wants to miss out on a minute of that for eight hours every day in his eighties. Now.

Speaker 2:

And how do you, how do you identify with him, Pico? I'm just curious, is he your brother? Is he your friend? Is he a family member? How do you, how do you connect with the Dalai Lama?

Speaker 3:

What a lovely question. I, I suppose I think of him sometimes as an, an honorary godfather. Well, an uncle, my, as soon as the Dalai Lama left Tibet in 1959, my father sailed back from England where we were living to meet him. So the melanoma always remembers that my father was one of the first people he met when he came into exile. And that's how I inherited this connection with him. And so he is, he always looks on me very kindly as, as his old friend's son.

Speaker 2:

I love that. What a special friendship and, and so much to learn right there. And you know, it's funny, when you were describing him going around and being, you know, we call that putzing, it's like you're putzing around, right?<laugh>, you wanna, you just wanna be around<laugh>. Well, Pico tell us again how we, we how we can connect and I'm looking forward to coming back after the break and talking more about, uh, just so many things about home and Paradise and travel and, and your books, how, tell us again your website and how we can get more information.

Speaker 3:

My website is pico iir journeys.com and all my books, 16 of them have come out from Penguin Random House and you can easily find them through the website of the publisher.

Speaker 2:

Well, I definitely wanna talk to you more about your books. So this is Marilyn Ball, I'm here with Pico Iowa and I'm very excited to come back after the break. So stay tuned, we'll be right back.

Speaker 1:

Anytime is the perfect time to get out and explore North Carolina's Blue Ridge Mountains. Create your perfect vacation or staycation in the land of the sky with the region's most popular online travel guide, not just for couples. Romantic asheville.com Travel Guide covers a nearly 100 mile radius in and around Asheville, North Carolina with idyllic weather, beautiful scenery, and a variety of safe and memorable adventures. Western North Carolina is the place to be. Visit romantic asheville.com today.

Speaker 9:

Whether you're traveling to points near or far, or traveling on a life journey, every transition is an opportunity regardless of your stage of life. If you, a family member or a loved one is looking to downsize, retire, or buy or sell a home, contact your trusted Mountain community advisor, Janet Oppenheimer from Nest Realty in Asheville. As a senior real estate specialist, Janet will help and guide you through any life transition one step at a time. Contact janet@nestrealty.com today, helping you find that perfect home to fit your next journey. Nest Realty,

Speaker 6:

Climb me to the moon, let me play among the stars. Let me see what spring is like on a Jupiter and Mars. In other words,

Speaker 2:

Welcome back to Speaking of Travel. I'm your host Marilyn Ball and I'm here today with Pico Ire and Pico. I'm, I'm just so grateful that you've spent time with us on speaking of travel and giving us some ideas of, uh, your stories. Let's talk a little bit about your books because you've got 16 books translated in 23 languages. Like who reads your books? I wanna know like how how many people are reading your books in 23 languages? What is it that you think that you're writing that is stirring people to uh, acknowledge that you're somebody that they want to follow and, and learn from?

Speaker 3:

Well, I mean, to be honest Marilyn, I'm guessing it's the same people who live to your listen to your program. In other words, it's people who love travel committed to curiosity and wanting to find out about the world. And I remember when I was a little boy, I thought, I'm growing up in the first generation in all of human history that can go to Cuba or Tibet or Antarctica. When my parents went to college, it was a 16 day trip by boat across several oceans. They didn't even know if they'd ever see their parents or loved ones. Again, my grandparents couldn't have imagined, you know, traveling very far across Asia. And here you and I and most of the listeners to your show have this rare opportunity to experience the global neighborhood as never before. So from an early age I wanted to make the most of it and then just share those discoveries with others. And it speaks a little maybe to your question about home because I was lucky to be born to Indian parents in England and then we moved to California when I was seven. So from a very early age I had parts of myself in many different continents and was interested in a world that was now more and more like me. Cuz every major city you go to now is part Asia and part Europe and part America and part everything else Africa too. So, um, the world has got much more interesting and our lives have got much more interesting I think, thanks to travel.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Well how do you, you, when you travel Pico, I'm sure that you see things that so many people don't have the, the opportunity to see, not just the fun things. Usually you think you're traveling and you're gonna go someplace and you're gonna see the touristy attractions and people, like you were saying earlier, people, uh, you are showing you the best of their culture. But I'm sure you're also seeing kind of the worst as well. I'm sure you're, you enter into these other countries that are, uh, foreign to us or, or not, were not allowed to see. How do you stay optimistic when, when you see such a large worldview like this?

Speaker 3:

I think one of the beauties of travel we all know is it makes you appreciate home more. And you and I have been talking about going to Cuba, which is an invigorating, vivacious, exciting place, but people there don't have many freedoms. And when I go back to California from Cuba, I'm reminded of all the things that I took for granted much too much. Uh, and when I go to, often I go to closed or impoverished places. It might be Tibet, it might be Burma, uh, many others. I always feel that those people there would do anything to get a chance to visit Asheville, North Carolina or California. But they will never have the means or the resources or the freedom to do so. And so I'm so grateful that I can visit them and initiate the conversation cuz otherwise people in so many countries are in a kind of solitary confinement. And I'm sure you've found in your travels what they're craving in a place like Cuba is just any contact with let's say the United States and with this big wide world that otherwise they can't meet. So I think tra travelers perform a great service because we're kind of living newspapers and breathing TV screens, bringing the larger world to places to people who don't otherwise have the chance to experience it. And, and of course I do see difficulties in, in, in many places, but I think that's a good humbling experience for me because again, I have a rather easy life and sometimes I'll complain about some tiny thing and then I'll find myself in Yemen or Haiti. And I think why am I complaining about the fact my, my Toyota's in the shop right now when these people can never dream of having a Toyota.

Speaker 2:

Well what do you think, given all of that, that you would suggest that people think about and be mindful about as they're raising their children and and thinking about the bigger world, what would you suggest as, uh, just a way that people can be a little bit more mindful as they're bringing their children up in this world right now to, to being aware of?

Speaker 3:

That's such a great question and I think the pandemic, uh, there's people nowadays are evermore of course understandably concerned about the safety of their children. But the pandemic reminded us nowhere safe that New York city is no safer than North Korea or Iran when it comes to a virus or when it comes to many things. I remember when I was in my twenties, I was traveling to a lot of difficult places, El Salvador, Philippines, Cuba, nothing bad ever happened to me. And then I came back to my parents' house in affluent, privileged, gated Santa Barbara. And as I said, my house burnt down with me inside it for three hours. It was much more dangerous. And of course that's an unusual experience, but it just reminded me that for many people in the world, the dangerous places United States and that not to worry when you're going to Cuba or Iran or many other countries, um, they couldn't be more welcoming to Americans. So try to expose your children to the world as much as possible, which you can now do in in your nearest big city. But also by encouraging them to travel and to remember that travel's not about movement, it's really about being moved. That's the important thing. And travel, as you were suggesting a minute ago, it's not about seeing the sites, it's about gaining new eyes. And you can do that close to home or you can do that on the far side of the world. But in either case, the sites are much less important than the insights. And the insights are much less important than just, you go somewhere, as you and I went to Cuba and suddenly you see everything you thought you knew differently. And, and as I said at the very beginning, you don't have to go far to do that, but please encourage your kids to remember that the way they see the world is probably different from everybody else. And it's a great adventure to see how everybody else sees the

Speaker 2:

World. I love that and I think that that's such an important, uh, uh, an important way for people to be thinking, especially what you were saying about just taking them for a walk in their own town, starting there. So Pico, I have to ask, what do you see for your future? I mean, you've been around the world, you've done so many amazing things, you've seen so many, uh, new sight and sounds, you get to hang out with the Dolly Lama, you know, what do you see for yourself in your future? What, what like really gets you all spurred up that you're, you're gonna look forward to?

Speaker 3:

Well, I found that the world is completely inexhaustible and the world is always richer and deeper and more interesting than my ideas of it. So it'll still have a long list of places I've never seen that I would love to go to. And places keep opening up quite often, suddenly places get closed and other places open up. Saudi Arabia is now eager to see tourists. I've never been there and I've always wanted to go there. I've never been to much of sub-Sahara in Africa and I've never been to many places in the United States. So here I am talking about going to Iran or North Korea. I've never been to Mississippi, I've never been to North Dakota, and I've probably never been to places on the other side of Santa Barbara. Just as you were saying a minute ago with kids, most of us haven't even explored our own hometown or our own states. So we'll never use up the world. And the, the, the climate crisis reminds us to be mindful about tra travel and people often are rightly reluctant about getting on planes nowadays. But if you are, take a walk,<laugh>, get in, you know, take a, take the bus just for 15 minutes across town and you'll see something that much of the world would marvel at. If somebody from Cuba arrived in Asheville, north Car, Carolina tonight, everything they saw would be a thing of wonder. So imagine you're a Cuban as you walk around your hometown,

Speaker 2:

That's perfect seeing it, but I'm getting this vision someday. Pico, I'm gonna see you wearing a sweatshirt that says I visited all 50 states

Speaker 3:

<laugh>. I hope so. That's something to aspire to.

Speaker 2:

There you go. Well, thank you Pico for being on Speaking of Travel today. I look forward to having you back on again and you can fill us in on some new travels and we'll all be looking at your, uh, looking at your books and, and all of your writing and tell us again how we can get more information and, and be checking you out.

Speaker 3:

Pico i journeys.com is my website and the best place really is to contact the Riverhead Books or Penguin Random House websites and you'll see all my books there. And thank you Marilyn, for just opening up the world to so many people. I can't think of a better thing to be doing.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you Pico. Well this is Marilyn ba you've been listening to speaking of Travel. And remember, traveling is not just moving from one place to another, but rather it's an event of sharing and learning things in the path of life. So just go, because remember life is short, don't postpone joy.